Daemon Prince: Why They're Not Broken

It is the belief of a very special few that the Daemon Prince's Daemon of X special rule is broken because it says "Daemons of X have...". I'm going to explain why it's not broken.

I guess this guy is a little broken, isn't he?

First of all, let's try to understand why some people think the rule is broken.

I'll use the Daemon of Nurgle special rule as an example. Because the Daemon of Nurgle special rule says that "Daemons of Nurgle have..." then some people take it to mean that any Daemon of Nurgle in the same army as a Daemon Prince with the Daemon of Nurgle rule instantly gain all bonuses that the Daemon Prince receives.

So what does this mean within our own Codex? Well, according to these people, if you give a unit a Mark of Nurgle, it then becomes "of Nurgle", and if it has the Daemon special rule it is therefore a "Daemon of Nurgle" and is as a result effected by the Daemon Prince's special rule. Warp Talons with Shrouded, anyone?

Because of a 15 point mandatory upgrade you now have one of the most broken armies in the game, right?

Wrong.

Why this is wrong is pretty simple really. The "Daemon" Universal Special Rule and the "Mark of Nurgle" are two completely seperate entities. It does not say anywhere, on any page ever that a model with a Mark of X and the Daemon special rule becomes a Daemon of X.

That's that.

But why does the entry say "Daemons of Nurgle have..."? Because Daemon Princes are not a one-per-army unit. You can have multiple Daemon Princes in your army, and thus all the Daemon Princes with the "Daemon of Nurgle" special rule are "Daemons of Nurgle".

What about Codex: Chaos Daemons though? To be completely honest with you, I have nothing on that one. It is indeed very possible to argue that all Nurgle Daemons from Codex: Chaos Daemons gain the rules for being a Daemon of Nurgle, and whether this was intended or not only time will be able to tell. Unless I missed something, of course.

Basically: Daemon of X does not do anything for any unit from C:CSM but it might be a little broken when combined with units from C:CD.

Thoughts? Comments? Proofs?

Daemon Prince: Which God?

I kind of enjoyed writing about the Marks and Icons, so I thought I'd do a similar thing with the Daemon of X that is mandatory on your Daemon Prince.

Dem abs

I'm not going to bother mentioning the Hatred (Y) beyond now because it doesn't seem necessary. It's not what you should be focussing on when deciding which upgrade to take.

Daemon of Khorne
Furious Charge and that's it. Really? In all honesty I feel a bit more effort could have been put into this one, and as is it's pretty useless. S6 is the magic number. At S6 you wound T4 (the majority of opponents you face) on a 2+ and you can cause Instant Death on T3 (the second most common Toughness value - taking popularity of Marine armies into account) opponents.

But what do you gain from becoming S7 instead of 6? Very little, really. You can penetrate the armour of vehicles slightly easier, which is kinda pointless seeing as you can just use your Smash attacks anyway for S10 and rerolls for penetration, and you can wound T5 opponents on a 2+ for a single round of combat, but how common are they?

Not common enough to take this upgrade over any of the others, especially with it being the cost it is.

Daemon of Tzeentch
Combined with Power Armour and Wings this is a very nice option. Slap on a Burning Brand of Skalathrax and you never have to stop Flying either.

Definitely an awesome upgrade when you consider that most anti-air is AP4, so you've got an extremely small chance of actually taking a wound.

Nice if you want to just keep on Flying around with the Burning Brand, or even if you decide to beat face with the Black Mace.

Daemon of Nurgle
Considering that Wings are essentially a must-have on Daemon Princes (you do want to actually get close to the enemy, right?) the only real downside to this option is that you'd have to make use of terrain constantly to really benefit from it at all. If you can manage that, however, it is slightly better than the Mark of Tzeentch when outside of combat. When in combat though, the Mark of Tzeentch is better.

I'd be giving this Prince some Wings, Burning Brand and nothing else. You don't want to rely on your armour save because there's really no point if you can use the terrain and you don't want to be in combat either because you have absolutely no benefits there.

A decent upgrade, but considering its fairly restrictive nature in actually benefiting from it, I don't know if I'd bother over Daemon of Tzeentch.

Daemon of Slaanesh
Rending is absolutely useless because you benefit from it in neither combat against infantry or vehicles. An extra 3" on your run is pointless because you're always Flying. Pointless. Even the Daemon of Khorne upgrade is more useful.

Conclusion
The Daemon of Tzeentch is really the only one that's very good, while the Daemon of Nurgle upgrade is pretty good but not great. Daemon of Khorne is something I'd only take if I were running a fluff-based Khorne army, but even then I'd probably just take Kharn. The Daemon of Slaanesh upgrade shouldn't be touched by a 10" pole, unfortunately. Slaanesh is my favourite god too :sadface:

A brief summary of the order:

1. Daemon of Tzeentch (OP)
2. Daemon of Nurgle
3. Daemon of Khorne
4. Daemon of Slaanesh

And just as a last note, the Black Mace is OP on a Daemon Prince. My favourite kit is Daemon of Tzeentch, Wings, Power Armour, Black Mace, Burning Brand of Skalathrax (if you have points).

Thoughts? Comments?

The Role of Each Mark of Chaos

Deciding which Mark to give to your units of Chaos Space Marines and other otherwise Undivided units can be one of the hardest decisions to make when writing a list for your Chaos Space Marines (unless you're going for a specific god), so to make that job a little easier, it's probably wise to have a good idea of the role of each Mark, and which units they work best on.

For simplicity, I put the Marks into three categories: Offensive, Defensive and Both.

Offensive Marks

 

Mark of Khorne

He's just so... Khorney!

This one is pretty obvious in its use: put it on a unit and they'll massacre in combat. This is the only offensive mark we have, i.e. the only mark that is designed purely to cause more casualties but will not prevent you from taking casualties in return.

The kinds of units you want this on are units that will be throwing their weight around in combat. The other important thing, however, is that you want to consider whether or not the unit is tough enough to actually punch enough things for them to do their job, or if they're cheap enough for you to not worry about their survivability anyway, as long as they do enough. 

Units like Chaos Space Marines and Cultists with close combat weapons, and maybe Raptors are perfect examples of cheap units that can go punch-for-punch with some more elite units given a Mark of Khorne, while Mutilators and Terminators are some of the more expensive but tougher units. I wouldn't take the Mark of Khorne on Warp Talons personally because it just seems like far too much overkill.

It should go without saying really, but anything that should be shooting is not worth giving a Mark of Khorne, this includes anything with Plasma Guns. If you give a Mark of Khorne to a unit of Chaos Space Marines, make sure they get Meltaguns/Flamers. Rapid Fire weapons are wasted points here.

Defensive Marks

Mark of Nurgle

Disgusting!

Another pretty obvious one (in fact, I think they all are really), and a very popular Mark as well. There's really nothing the Mark of Nurgle isn't good on.

I think the main thing really is: when do you take the Mark of Nurgle, and when Tzeentch?

Well, the Mark of Nurgle doesn't improve your save or give you a better chance at stopping your guy from dying after the wound has been caused, instead it simply reduces the number of wounds taken altogether.

In general, the Mark of Nurgle helps against anything that's S6 (S7 if on Bikers or Spawn) or worse by simply lowering the number of saves you have to take. This means that your models with a Mark of Nurgle will generally be very resilient when it comes to walking through a hail of Bolter fire or weathering an Explodes! result from a vehicle.

But what does it not provide defence against? Well, simply put, things like Plasma Guns, i.e. anything with a high enough strength to wound you on a 2+ anyway, which will often ignore your saves as well. In situations like this, the Mark of Nurgle becomes completely worthless.

Fortunately most guns are not Plasma Guns, but unfortunately Plasma Guns will be the bane of your existence.

The kinds of units that benefit the most from the Mark of Nurgle are Bikers and Spawn thanks to their already bloated toughness, which actually means that even Plasma Guns will only be wounding on 3's. Chaos Space Marines, Raptors or anything else without a pre-existing Invulnerable Save also benefit from the Mark of Nurgle far more than they do from the Mark of Tzeentch.

Mark of Tzeentch

Needs more change to be more competitive

The Mark of Tzeentch protects you against all the things Mark of Nurgle doesn't, but won't help you at all against the things that the Mark of Nurgle does, so this puts a player into quite the sticky situation... Who do I take which Mark on? When?

Well, first of all the Mark of Tzeentch really is pretty pants on a unit that doesn't already have an Invulnerable save, because a 6++ is just really not worth the points. So that leaves us with the likes of Terminators, Warp Talons, Obliterators, Mutilators and Possessed.

Whether you take Mark of Tzeentch on these units or not depends on a few things:

• Do you want to avoid terrain so you can move faster/avoid Dangerous Terrain?
• Is there little 4+ cover terrain pieces in the area you play?
• Do you need a unit to escort a MoT Lord/Sorcerer?
• Do people in your area spam Plasma/other AP2 weapons?

 If the answer is "yes" to any of the above, then the Mark of Tzeentch could be worth considering. If it's "yes" to 3-4 of them, then I'd definitely be taking it on some Terminators (if you run any Terminators).

So the Mark of Tzeentch is a bit more specialised and a far less safe option than a Mark of Nurgle, but it does have its perks in certain places and is definitely worth considering.

Both

Mark of Slaanesh

"Both" doesn't just apply to Mark uses here...

The Mark of Slaanesh is, in my opinion, the best Mark overall in the book. The Icon of Excess does play a role in this, but we'll get to Icons in just a moment.

With a +1 Initiative bonus, the Mark of Slaanesh applies only to combat, but is still something worth considering on certain shooty units as well for the Initiative alone.

To understand how +1 Initiative is a fairly potent offensive tool, we must first work out how it's good defensively.

In essence, the Mark of Slaanesh prevents you from taking casualties in the same way the Mark of Nurgle does: by reducing the number of saves you actually have to take. It does this by allowing you to strike before most opponents, which allows you to kill a couple of models in combat before those models even have a chance to strike which therefore means that there are less attacks coming back at you, less attacks hitting, less attacks wounding, less saves you have to take and ultimately less casualties caused to your unit.

But here's where it gets good...

Unlike the Mark of Nurgle which has absolutely no benefits in combat against something like a Dreadnought, the Mark of Slaanesh allows you to hit it with a whole bunch of Krak Grenades before it can hit you, which means that you can potentially knock off the last of its Hull Points before it turns your unit to mush with its S10 AP2 attacks.

So how does it work offensively?

Well, it's mostly in the way it allows you to play your models: more aggresively. Normally your standard CSM wouldn't be able to take on certain units in combat, but because of their improved Initiative they can plow right into the enemy because of the significantly reduced fear of taking too any casualties and losing combat. Furthermore, the unit can only really be defensive if they have some offensive hitting power, otehrwise everything just goes downhill.

But it's also a great offensive stat against the likes of Eldar and Dark Eldar who might otherwise use their Initiative in the same way you'd use yours: to cause casualties before the enemy can strike and thus take less in return. By having a Mark of Slaanesh you now have an offensive bonus against their Initiative 5 units in that you remove their defensive bonus from Initiative, ultimately leaving them with almost no defense and allowing you to strike with all of your force.

The only real downfall of the Mark of Slaanesh is that it only works in combat, but then again, combat is ultimately inevitable in some situations.

Units that work well with a Mark of Slaanesh are any combat-oriented unit, as well as any short-ranged shooting unit (Chaos Space Marines with Plasma Guns for example) because they're generally operating in a 12" distance from the enemy and will likely get charged.

The important thing to remember is that the more damage your unit can cause in close combat, the better it will be defensively as well. Maximise the damage you do, minimise the damage you take.

With that out of the way, it's time for...

...

*drumroll*

...

Icons

Icon of Wrath (Mark of Khorne)

Gives you Furious Charge and rerolls to your charge range. Absolutely fantastic in my opinion. It really just makes the unit better at its role, no more need be said.

Icon of Despair (Mark of Nurgle)

This is probably the worst Icon of the lot. It's cheap, sure, but with the amount of Fearless/ATSKNF/Leadership 10 around it'll hardly have much of an effect ever. However, when and if it does work, it will be brutal to the unit on the receiving end, so it's not too bad if you have a spare few points lying around.

Icon of Flame (Mark of Tzeentch)

A reasonable Icon for a shooty unit and I've seen some people take Mark of Tzeentch just for the Soul Blaze, but I don't think it's that great. It has a place on a unit of shooty Terminators or some Obliterators, but otherwise won't see much play because most of the units it'd be good on aren't that great with a Mark of Tzeentch in the first place.

Icon of Excess (Mark of Slaanesh)

Throw this on the unit and suddenly you've got one of the best defensive kits in our book, beaten out only by Plague Marines themselves. Suddenly your units can whether a storm from a distance and beat face in combat. The best Icon in the codex. 

Thoughts? Comments?

Noise Marines vs Thousand Sons

Yet another topic that's debated (arguably less than previous topics, I will admit) is whether Noise Marines or Thousand Sons are superior as a purely shooty troops choice. So let's get into it!

Trigonometric!

Here are the unit builds:
10 Noise Marines - 8 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Icon of Excess - 264pts.
10 Thousand Sons - 265pts.

With only a one point difference, you'd better hope that they're equally worth taking...

First of all, note that I will always assume the Noise Marines are 13"-24" away and that they haven't moved. The Thousand Sons are within 24". Blastmaster, Tzeentch's Firestorm and Doombolt will all be given 3 hits.

Furthermore, Cover is irrelevant against Noise Marines but will be taken into account against the Thousand Sons.

Let's see how they do against some:

MEq

Wounds caused by Psychic Powers
Tzeentch's Firestorm: 3 hits, S5 on average (benefit of the doubt), 2 wounds, 0.666... dead. If that model dies average 2 S3 AP- hits on the unit, 0.666... wounds, 0.222... dead for a total of 0.888... dead if the first hits caused a casualty.

Doombolt: 3 hits, 2.5 wounds, 2.5 dead if no cover, 1.666... if in 5+ cover and 1.25 dead if in 4+ cover.

Noise Marines
25 S4 shots, 16.666... hits, 8.333... wounds, 2.777... unsaved wounds. Blastmaster gets 3 hits, 2.5 wounds, 2.5 dead Marines for a total of 5.2777... dead.

Thousand Sons
Out of cover:
Outside of Rapid Fire range:  9 S4 shots, 6 hits, 3 wounds. 3.666... to 3.888... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 5.5 with Doombolt.

Inside Rapid-fire range: 18 S4 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds. 6.666... to 6.888... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 8.5 with Doombolt.

In 5+ cover:
Outside of Rapid Fire range: 9 S4 shots, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 2 unsaved wounds. 2.666... to 2.888... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 3.666... dead with Doombolt.

Inside Rapid Fire range: 18 S4 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 4 unsaved wounds. 4.666... to 4.888... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 5.666... dead with Doombolt.

In 4+ cover:
Outside of Rapid Fire range: 9 S4 shots, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 1.5 unsaved wounds. 2.1666... to 2.3888... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 2.75 dead with Doombolt.

Inside Rapid Fire range: 18 S4 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 3 unsaved wounds. 3.666... to 3.888... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 4.25 dead with Doombolt.

So against MEq I've got to say that the Noise Marines are the better option because, let's face it, no opponent in their right mind is going to leave a squad out in the open for you unit of AP3 Bolter wielding dudes to shoot, so we can pretty much ignore that part of the math, and as soon as the enemy enters even the slightest bit of cover the Noise Marines instantly win out through raw fire power.

It looks like it's just downhill for the Thousand Sons from here, but let's just see how bad it gets...

TEq
Wounds caused by Psychic Powers
Tzeentch's Firestorm: 3 hits, S5 on average (benefit of the doubt), 2 wounds, 0.333... dead. If that model dies average 2 S3 AP- hits on the unit, 0.666... wounds, 0.111... dead for a total of 0.444... dead if the first hits caused a casualty.


Doombolt: 3 hits, 2.5 wounds, 1.666... dead with no cover or 5+ cover and 1.25 dead if in 4+ cover, 0.8333... dead if they have a Storm Shield.

Noise Marines
25 S4 shots, 16.666... hits, 8.333... wounds, 1.3888... unsaved wounds. Blastmaster gets 3 hits, 2.5 wounds, 0.41666... unsaved wounds for a total of 1.80555... dead.

Thousand Sons
Out of cover:

Outside of Rapid Fire range:  9 S4 shots, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 0.5 unsaved wounds. 0.8333... to 0.9444... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 2.1666..., 1.75 or 1.333... dead with Doombolt.

Inside Rapid-fire range: 18 S4 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 1 unsaved wound. 1.333... to 1.444... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 2.666..., 2.25 or 1.8333... with Doombolt.

QEq
Wounds caused by Psychic Powers
Tzeentch's Firestorm: 3 hits, S5 on average (benefit of the doubt), 2.5 wounds, 1.666... dead. If 1 model dies average 2 S3 AP- hits on the unit, 1 wound, 0.666... dead for a total of 2.333... dead if the first hits caused a casualty. If 2 models died, average 4 S3 AP- hits, 2 wounds, 1.222... dead for a total of 3.888... if the first hits caused 2 wounds.


Doombolt: 3 hits, 2.5 dead if no cover, 1.666... if in 5+ cover and 1.25 dead if in 4+ cover.

Noise Marines
25 S4 shots, 16.666... hits, 11.111... dead. Blastmaster gets 3 hits, 2.5 wounds, 2.5 dead for a total of 13.6111... dead.

Thousand Sons
Out of cover:

Outside of Rapid Fire range:  9 S4 shots, 6 hits, 4 wounds. 5.666..., 6.333... or 7.888... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 6.5 with Doombolt.

Inside Rapid-fire range: 18 S4 shots, 12 hits, 8 wounds. 9.666..., 10.333... or 11.888... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 10.5 with Doombolt.


In 5+ cover:
Outside of Rapid Fire range: 9 S4 shots, 6 hits, 4 wounds, 2.666... unsaved wounds. 4.333..., 5 or 6.555... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 4.333... dead with Doombolt.

Inside Rapid Fire range: 18 S4 shots, 12 hits, 8 wounds, 5.333... unsaved wounds. 7, 7.666... or 9.222... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 7 dead with Doombolt.


In 4+ cover:
Outside of Rapid Fire range: 9 S4 shots, 6 hits, 4 wounds, 2 unsaved wounds. 3.666..., 4.333 or 5.888... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 3.25 dead with Doombolt.


Inside Rapid Fire range: 18 S4 shots, 12 hits, 8 wounds, 4 unsaved wounds. 5.666..., 6.333... or 7.888... dead with Tzeentch's Firestorm, 5.25 dead with Doombolt.

There you have it. Noise Marines annihilate Thousand Sons when it comes to versing TEq and GEq. I didn't bother with T3/4+ saves because the results would be similar to MEq in that 1k Sons ignore armour while Noise Marines don't, whereas against TEq neither ignores armour and against GEq both do.

Also, there are a few notes that I'd like to make on their game-play that you cannot work out with math:

• Noise Marines can do their maximum amount of damage at least a turn earlier than Thousand Sons because they can achieve this at 24" while Thousand Sons need to be within 12" to really be effective
• As a result of this Noise Marines are far less likely to get assaulted earlier and can therefore shoot for longer, increasing the damage they'll do over the course of a game even further, making them even better
• When being shot back at the Noise Marines are more survivable thanks to a combination of armour/cover save and Feel no Pain (which do a better job than a 4++ save if they're getting shot at by AP3 or better), so Noise Marines are more survivable in fire fights as well
• In combat Noise Marines strike at Initiative 5 which allows them to kill more models before the enemy has a chance to strike, reducing the number of wounds actually caused on the Noise Marines, end then they have armour and FnP to get them throu

Chaos Space Marines: Checking Out the Raptor Sprue

After a couple of weeks of waiting, my Raptor kits finally arrived. So, naturally, as one does when they've been waiting for three weeks for something they so desperately yearn for, I thought I'd go make a pie, maybe browse MiniWarGaming, do some work on my vocals and do some study. With that all out of the way, it was finally time to sit down and see what's in the box...

So. Many. Bits.

So this is what we got in just one of the boxes. Only two sprues, but they were absolutely packed with bits. Let's have a closer look, shall we?

Legs, Jump Packs, bodies and mostly Warp Talon stuff.

More legs and Jump Packs, as well as all the bits you'll want for Raptors!

Both sprues are about as full as they could possibly be with stuff. The number of Lightning Claws that come in this box is brilliant! I think I have a good 18 of them to use after using one for my Raptor Champ and keeping one for my Lord out of two boxes of Raptors.

The other thing I was actually really impressed with was that while you still only get one of each special weapon (as with every GW kit ever), they actually give you two sets of arms to wield the special weapons with per kit, so that even if you only buy 5 you can still take a Meltagun and a Flamer without searching around for any spare bits or buying anything else. Not that taking 5 Raptors is a good idea though...

So what does that mean for me? It means I'm about half way in terms of Plasma + arms to a Plasma Chosen squad. Definitely stoked.

As for the bits themselves, everything looks fantastic. The detail and number of spiky bits are very chaotic. There's even teeth on the top of all the Jump Packs. There's so much customisation available in the Raptor box. It has to be the most enjoyable kit I've ever got my hands on.

Anyway, after a good 2-3 hours of work, I've got them this far:

Who needs Jump Packs when you've got skillz?

Or heads, for that matter...

I'm leaving the heads, Jump Packs and shoulder pads off them all until they've been painted, as well as the Meltaguns. I realised it'd be too hard to paint after making the mistake of sticking some on without thinking, but oh well, what can you do? And the armless guy is going to be the icon bearer. I'll be using the standard from the Slaanesh Helstriders (or whatever they're called... I think that's it?) which I'll mostly be buying so I can mount my Lord on a Steed of Slaanesh.

So that's it from me for now. If you have any excuse to run some Raptors, I'd definitely suggest it. They seem like they'll be a very good option on the tabletop too. Time will tell...

Noise Marine Parts All In

My Sonic Weapons and 25mm Ruins scenic bases from Back 2 Base-ix have finally arrived! Now I'm just waiting on 2 boxes of Raptors and everything I had ordered will be in and we can hopefully start getting a few 750-1000 point games in fairly soon.

Bases make (ノ＾∇＾)ノ "ALL OF THE DIFFERENCE...!"

The bases look very nice and have a good amount of detail on them, but they definitely weren't flawless. Either way, I'm not really complaining because the end result should be great - definitely much better than just basing my guys with sand/grass or whatever. I intend on using these scenic bases for most of my army, except maybe the Cultists and Raptors.

GW's really getting their shit together with Finecast

The other arms are still on the sprues. Despite being Finecast, the Sonic weapons really have very few issues. It just takes a little to clean them up with a hobby knife, but otherwise they were almost perfect. In the set I've opened so far, I've only found a couple of bubbles on the bottom of the wires on two of them, which is hardly much of an issue. The detail is fantastic and I really have no issues about ordering more for my second unit.

I've also changed my list up a reasonable amount since the first draft I posted, so here's what I'm aiming for now:
HQ - 165pts.
Chaos Lord - Mark of Slaanesh, Steed of Slaanesh, Lightning Claw, Power Fist, Sigil of Corruption - 165pts.

Troops - 749pts.
10 Noise Marines - 8 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Icon of Excess - 264pts.
10 Noise Marines - 8 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Icon of Excess - 264pts.
20 Cultists - 18 Autoguns, Flamer - 113pts.
20 Cultists - 18 Autoguns - 108pts.

Fast Attack - 506pts.
Heldrake - Baleflamer - 170pts.
3 Chaos Bikers - 2 Meltaguns - 90pts.
9 Raptors - 2 Meltaguns, Lightning Claw, Mark of Slaanesh, Icon of Excess - 246pts.

Heavy Support - 230pts.
5 Havocs - 4 Autocannons - 115pts.
5 Havocs - 4 Autocannons - 115pts.

Fortifications - 100pts.
Aegis Defence Line - Quad-gun - 100pts.

TOTAL - 1750pts.

C&C more than welcome!

Heavy Firepower Slaaneshi Foot List

A little bit of background never hurt...

When I started with Chaos Space Marines, Slaanesh was easily my favourite of the gods, and I was looking forward to building a pretty boss Emperors Children Army. But then I found out that Noise Marines and just about all things Slaanesh sucked in the last book, so I turned to Nurgle instead. Then I was going to do some Word Bearers, or maybe a Tzeentch army, but after looking through the new book, neither of those really provided the kind of firepower I was looking for.

So, here we are, all the way back at Slaanesh. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit stoked about it.

HQ - 165pts.
Lucius the Eternal - 165pts.

Troops - 824pts.
9 Chaos Space Marines - Replace Bolters with Close Combat Weapons, Lightning Claw, Gift of Mutation, Melta Bombs, Mark of Slaanesh, Icon of Excess - 200pts.
10 Noise Marines - 9 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Icon of Excess - 267pts.
10 Noise Marines - 9 Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, Icon of Excess - 267pts.
20 Chaos Cultists - 90pts.

Fast Attack - 350pts.
Heldrake - Baleflamer - 170pts.
3 Chaos Bikers - 2 Meltaguns - 90pts.
3 Chaos Bikers - 2 Meltaguns - 90pts.

Heavy Support - 405pts.
5 Havocs - 4 Missile Launchers, Flakk Missiles - 175pts.
5 Havocs - 4 Autocannons - 115pts.
5 Havocs - 4 Autocannons - 115pts.

TOTAL - 1749pts.

The only unit that I feel is slightly out of place in this list is the unit of combat-oriented Chaos Space Marines, but I don't feel comfortable wasting Lucius's combat prowess with another unit of Noise Marines sitting back.

I also loathe painting vehicles to such an extent that I'd rather gimp myself and not take them than having to spend the few hours to paint them up (the Heldrake being the exception). Luckily, I feel that this edition really favours more bodies on the field than anything and I think it'll hardly be much of an issue, if it is one at all.

Lastly, it should be noted that whilst I said in my review of the codex that 2 Flyers should be taken minimum, I wouldn't be able to take all that I'd like in the list if I did that and I think that it should turn out fine with just one, provided you have the right amount of anti-Flyer. Time will tell I guess...

This is still only a draft for the moment, but it should be pretty close to what I want in the end. Now I just need to get building!

Feedback is welcome as always!